There is one interview of Shashi Abraham which she gave to Rosebowl Channel. In Youtube it is in 2 parts. I am translating both the parts together and putting it here. In Youtube you can see it at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuo4Ug4liP4 (part 1) and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwGZ0yx-ljY (part 2)
Translation of the interview:
Interviewer:
Being a Malayali fashion designer, Anand Jon was one of the most watched persons in the American fashion industry. It was big news in the world media when he was arrested and put in jail. However we don't know the current state of Anand Jon. But the person who feels the biggest loss will his mother. Hence I am asking you being Anand Jon's mother, what is his current condition? We wish to know more about his case and how he is doing in jail.
Shashi Abraham:
Anand is currently in New York Rikers Island jail. New York is a different jurisdiction. He was convicted in Los Angeles. He was moved to New York from there last year in January end. A new trial is to start in New York, but it hasn't started yet. We have also appealed against his conviction in Los Angeles. The appeal has been admitted but we don't know when they will take it up. I think when it comes to appeal only certain amount of words are possible, but we can also give a writ along with it. Preparation of the writ is currently going on in Los Angeles. In New York, day before yesterday, that is on the 6th, we had a court date. They had told us that they would gives us a trial date, but they did not fix a trial date on that day. On the contrary on that day Anand passed out and fainted. It has happened 5 or 6 times till now. The reason is that they take and put him in the area called holding area. In that area, temperatures are very high. Now we are not used to that kind of conditions, temperatures there are very high. So we sent a request, a motion requesting that Anand be kept in a normal air conditioned area. By that we did not mean that we wanted to live comfortably in an air conditioned area, but to cope when extreme climate comes. He is very heat sensitive, so that is why we raised the request. The Judge did not give any reply to our request, we also requested to move him to Manhattan jail from Rikers Island because we have heard that they centrally maintain temperature there. We have not received a reply from either of them, 23rd September is the date they have given us.
As soon as we made the request, New York Post and other papers there started writing that Anand the convicted rapist is asking for this and that, why is he asking for AC room, why can't he remain in the same jail, and so on. So it is as if we don't have any right to ask for anything there. Human rights violations are very high there. Anand has 4 painful teeth, which we had told about 4 and half years back itself, he is suffering very badly due to it. Doctors had told that we need to do root canal for those teeth. But the jail authorities are telling us that they can't do a root canal, but they can extract the teeth. We even told them that we will make the money somehow and pay for his root canal treatment by a good dental surgeon, but they haven't done anything about it for us so far.
We went to the Indian Consulate there, Prabhu Dayal is the Consul General of India there. I went and met him and submitted a petition. When we followed up about it later, they replied back that they have sent a letter, but the jail authorities replied back saying that they cannot help. I replied that if we ask once, they may not agree to it, but if we are truly interested, we have to keep on and on asking. For example, if I say I want to go from here to Chennai, there is no point in saying that I stepped out 10 feet from my house and saying that I tried.
Interviewer:
Is it possible to see Anand in person now?
Shashi Abraham:
Yes. When compared to Los Angeles, New York is much better, he doesn't need to suffer as much as he did in LA. However there are gang wars and violence in all these jails. Many of the prisoners in the jail belong to different gangs and groups, such as Italian mafia, Mexican mafia, Spanish mafia, Russian mafia, all of them have lot of protection. If anyone touches any of them there is a whole group behind them. But we don't have anything.
Interviewer:
After reaching there weren't you able to see him?
Shashi Abraham:
I am able to see him. I am able to see him every week. Some weeks there are 3 times visitation rights. But going there first of all costs you money, then it is a whole day's work. We cannot enter Rikers Island by car, we have to park in their parking area, then their shuttle bus comes. It costs 2 dollars one way by the shuttle bus and another 2 dollars back. After reaching inside there are 3 or 4 stages of checking. We have to wait after each check, and only if their buses are available we can go. They will call and take us in. There are not many white people in there, it is mostly African-Americans inside the jail. Among our people, I have seen one Sardarji, apart from that I haven't seen any Indians.
Interviewer:
When was the last you saw him?
Shashi Abraham:
I saw him last 4 months ago.
Interviewer:
What did Anand say? How much is his confidence?
Shashi Abraham:
The reason why they lock you up like this is to break you down, to destroy your morale, to emotionally, mentally, physically and financially break you down. It costs a lot of money, it is not like anything we can think of. People ask us what difficulty we have with money. Okay, if we need to make 1 lakh or 5 lakh or 10 lakh rupees I can somehow manage it, but when it becomes 5 crore or 10 crore rupees, it is very difficult for me. I am a single parent. In these past 4 and half years none of us have any employment, we were not able to take anything which we had also, because we had invested it all in the business. Anand's company was being launched on March 20th. A new jeans product was being launched, we had spent a lot of money on it. The first bail itself was 1.365 million dollars, we had to give only 10 percent of it as cash, but even that is about 150 thousand dollars. Ours is a small family, Anand's company was only being funded at that time, they had sanctioned everything at the end of 2006, and on March 6th, 2007 he was arrested. On 7th we were supposed to sign the agreement for the first tranche of funding, and the company was to be launched on 20th.
Interviewer:
Do you feel a lobby is behind all this?
Shashi Abraham:
Absolutely, absolutely! There has been a big conspiracy. All the evidence is favourable to us, there is no evidence against Anand. There was only 1 rape kit. Just think of it, if any girl or woman is raped, that too in a country like America, would she keep quiet? Here in India we can understand, if a girl is raped, she might be hesistant to tell it outside to anyone, she might even be hesitant to talk to her family about it, if the outside society comes to know it will be more embarassment and shame. There are many such factors in India, but not in a country like America. We did not go towards them, the girls themselves came to us. Here in Kerala, people are highly educated, we can understand, a country like America is much more progressive than us in matters like the fashion industry. Culturally we are more advanced, they are not even close to us. Girls there start modeling at the age of 13, they are fully grown by that time. They are not small children at that time, they are matured at the age of 13. But by law, 17 is the age of maturity in New York, in Los Angeles California it is 18 years. If any girl comes to us, if they are
d, by law they should be accompanied by a guardian with them, it is an industry law. They have to show an ID when they come to us, we can find out their age from their ID. If a girl comes and says that she is 19 years old, we take it, because she shows her ID. In clubs over there, you have to be 21 years old to enter and have drinks. All the girls we knew used to be in the clubs, so we were 100 percent usre that they are of age. Whenever the girls used to come to us, we make it a point to videotape them, because we do not know how things might turn out later. In the tape we ask them, where are you from, what do you do, why have you come to us, how do you know about us, what is your age, etc. When they are asked how old are you, they reply I am 18, when asked why have you come, they reply I have come to see Anand Jon. Some others say I have come as a friend. We take a video of all models because we cannot remember the faces and body structure of all of them. Not only photos, but their movement and everything the industry needs of them we store.
Now let me talk about nudity. I am not speaking just as Anand's mother, I was working with him. I am basically a cosmetologist, I am a member of the London Institute of Cosmetology, so I know about the industry. Nudity is something very normal in this industry, it is something as normal as talking to somebody. If you go to the backstage you will see all of them naked all the time, nobody raises their eyebrows about it. I have seen the same in India also. When I started my beauty salon in 1979, at that time I used to organize fashion shows in Bombay. At that time, people like Nandini Sen, Kalapana Iyer and all were there. At that time, I myself was surprised, our Indian girls, in the backstage, they were all naked there. So I have never felt it shocking in this industry.
In Anand's case, he is a fashion designer, not a person working a 9 to 5 job. He never had the need to lure a girl or trap and exploit her. He is a very good looking, very attractive, very intelligent and a very successful young designer. So any girl would love to be in his company, he is such a person. I am not saying this because he is my son, but because I have worked with him, along with his sister Sanjana. We have worked as a family, we stayed together, we worked together. We had not hit any big money, we were just able to manage our life. But we were a little higher that the ordinary strata because we were in the mainstream. It is very tough to penetrate into the mainstream of design, but Anand was able to do it by his hard work, his talent and by God's blessing. He could penetrate into a field that even Americans find difficult to penetrate and be able to reach a number 1 position. But he was able to do it. As Ambassador Srinivasan told yesterday, Anand Jon was one among the most successful Indians below 30 years of age, he was only 25 years or so at that time. Nothing was given to him on a silver platter, he achieved it all by his hard work and talent only.
Interviewer:
Did the girls who sued Anand give their complaint as a group?
Shashi Abraham:
See, among these girls, at least 5 of them came with us to India. Every year we organize an event with Miss Universe for 3 causes, AIDS Awareness, Save the Girl Child and Human Rights. Anand started it, but I and Sanjana bring them here. They came here with us, they had no problems, they were full of praise for Anand. They came with us in 2004, 2005 and 2006, (Interviewer interrupts and asks here - were they also invovled in this case? then Shashi Abraham continues), at those times they had no problem at all. Then they suddenly remembered, oh these things happened to us in 2001, 2002, 2003, we remember it now! When they said such things, we ... yeah ...
Interviewer:
Weren't you able to meet those girls in person and talk to them?
Shashi Abraham:
No we aren't supposed to do that. That would be conisdered as a misconduct and we could be arrested if we tried to contact them in any way, we would be accused of things like witness intimidation, trying to destroy or damage evidence, we will be arrested if we try to talk to them. So we didn't go to contact them.
Interviewer:
Did they try to contact you?
Shashi Abraham:
They are also not supposed to do that.
Interviewer:
Did you feel they felt any guilt at any time?
Shashi Abraham:
Yes, investigators can contact them. Many of the girls told the investigators that they didn't think anything that happened when they were with Anand was a crime or was wrong, it was just a perfect thing, but it was the prosecution and the police who were telling them that it was wrong. For e.g., they asked an underaged girl of 16 years if anything happened with her, she told that nothing happened, he was very decent. Then they prompted her saying something must have happened, he might have grabbed you, or groped you, or done something to you. Then she told them, while dressing, his right finger once touched my left boob, that's all. Then they prompted her, yes that's enough! And they termed it as sexual battery. Then touching the thigh, that is nothing, but they termed that as sexual misconduct, sexual battery, and other terms like inappropriate touching. For the first 8 months our lawyer did not permit us to speak to the media, so we kept quiet. Meanwhile the prosecution demonized Anand, by saying Anand Jon is a serial rapist, an Indian who lured girls through the internet, brought them to his apartment and raped them. They showed him as a monster called Anand Jon, a sexual predator called Anand Jon who molests girls, who indulges in child pornography, whereas nobody was a child here. One girl was 17 years and 8 months old, in LA she would be underaged, because 18 is the age of adulthood there. Another girl took nude photos of herself in her bathroom using her cellphone and sent it to Anand from her gmail account, but Anand gets the punishment for that. We proved in court that Anand did not click these pictures, the girl herself took them and she herself sent it.
Interviewer:
You said that you have video clippings of the time when these girls came for modeling. Did you use those as evidence?
Shashi Abraham:
Yes of course we did! I cannot speak about New York now because the case has not yet begun there, but I can say in general, we have clippings of the girls very happily saying we will come back, we want to work with Anand again, etc. Even other people have these videos.
Interviewer:
What did they say in court?
Shashi Abraham:
Everything that the girls said was perjury under oath. We swear that we will tell only the truth in court don't we? It was proven in court that whatever they said were lies. The prosecution coaches them, that you should say like this, you should say like that. In the cross examination it became very clear that they were all telling lies. For e.g., some of them said that Anand Jon raped them and after that they didn't meet him at all, but there were many evidences of them standing with him at various places after the said date, some of them after 2 days, some after 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, we presented all these pictures to the court.
Interviewer:
Won't they be punished for lying to the court?
Shashi Abraham:
Yes they should be, but only in our case, that is not being done!
Interviewer:
What could be the reason for that?
Shashi Abraham:
Just discrimination! What else can we call it! The girls themselves admitted that they hacked into his computer. You can get into somebody's computer and tamper everything, you can change or remove or add anything in it, the girls themselves admitted it to the prosecution. Then the prosecution told them it's ok, people do lie under stress so it's ok! So there is prosecutorial misconduct and misconduct on the part of the girls. What they did is a cybercrime. That is a very big crime in America, but nobody is bothered about it in this case. Then what the prosecution does, they drop those girls from the case. That's not right! Anand was punished according to their testimony.
Interviewer:
A large American company was about to fund Anand's company and it was just before the opening that these accusations case and the arrest occurred. So do you think a lobby that tried to frame Anand also biased the court and the jury?
Shashi Abraham:
I don't know whether the jury was biased or who else was biased, but we are sure of one thing, that we did not get justice. As we say in Malayalam, only a crying child gets the milk, we need someone to question things. We need people whom we elected, our leaders, or our office bearers to question it. It is their responsibility to question, it is not correct to merely say that it is sub-judicial, it is happening in another country, so we cannot say anything about it, and so on.
Interviewer:
Did any Indians come forward to help you?
Shashi Abraham:
Initially some Punjabis and Gujaratis had come forward to help us. They accompanied us to court and to the jail. At that time we never intended to start a fundraiser, because at that time we were able to manage some money from here and there to fight. So we could manage without asking anyone. Then we were overconfident because all the evidence was in favour of us, we were very confident that we will never lose the case. But now when it has turned out like this we feel as if a bomb has been dropped on us. When they arrested Anand and dragged him away like that, I am unable to see him. He tells me, mamma, depression is a luxury that we can't afford, so you should not sulk and cry, I want my mother to be a strong fighter. I don't like my mother to cry in front of anyone, because people see you and sister (Sanjana), not me. They see my face through you. So you should be strong, you should be in good health, you should look good. When I hear all this, I need to forget all my pain as a mother, only then I will be able to survive. I have to move on, so I have to be strong, mentally, physically, in every way I have to be strong.
Interviewer:
According to the US laws, is it possible to get bail again now?
Shashi Abraham:
I'll explain, when we asked for bail a second time, they asked us for 5 million dollars, then we argued and brought it down to 2 million dollars. There was no way I could make 2 million dollars, even though I went and asked for help from many different people. 2 million dollars is 10 crore rupees, from where will I make that much? What they do is they increase the number of counts against us. For e.g., when 1 girl says she was touched here, that is one count, she was touched there, that is one more count, they increase counts like that. So as number of counts increase, our bail amount also increases accordingly. They increased it that way to 99 counts, and on the day previous to the trial, they dropped three fourths of the counts. Now anyway the trial is beginning the next day, so they wont give bail.
Interviewer:
If the judiciary behaves in a biased way like this, do you think you will escape from them even if they give bail again? I am asking because they have sentenced Anand to 55 years imprisonment even though evidence was in favour of him.
Shashi Abraham:
I don't know about that, I cannot speak about that, because we have never intended to go against the law of any land till now, and we do not wish to do it either. And I don't think we will ever do it, mainly because, we have not commited a wrong.
Interviewer:
I didn't mean to say you wanted to do it, I just felt compelled to asked you
Shashi Abraham:
I understood you. What I am speaking of here is the role of our Government. We need to make an amendment or law or some kind of fund to protect an Indian citizen abroad in this kind of a situation during the period leading up to the trial. It is the responsibility of the Government to protect him. There are so many cases in which a person has been punished on the false testimony of a witness, and 20 years later it has been found that he is innocent. As long as it is in our country, if not anything else, we can at least go and meet him. If I want to give him some home cooked food, I am unable to do it. I and Sanjana used to work at Tihar jail. There, inmate's families can bring food from home for them. At that time, my mind has felt a lot of pain that I cannot even give food one time to my child. He has to have whatever they give him in jail. He likes our rice and curries very much. Even though he was living in the US, he likes only our food and he eats with his hands. One thing I am very proud about Anand is that he mostly speaks only in Malayalam. Even though he has been there for so long and been associated with the fashion industry, he mostly talks in Malayalam, and when he sees any Keralites he asks them whether they know Malayalam, because of his desire to speak with them in Malayalam. He was a cultural ambassador of India, that is what Shashi Tripathi our Consul General said about him. He wanted to promote Indian culture. His fashion style itself was fusion, he promoted Indian culture so well, maybe even a cross colonization itself may have taken place.
Interviewer:
Didn't you try to get the Indian Government to interfere and try to save Anand?
Shashi Abraham:
I have been trying for that and I am still trying for that. We still don't have an extradition treaty or an exchange of prisoners treaty. I am saying, I can fight the case, over here I have the support, but to fight in an alien country is difficult for me. For e.g., if there is a fight between one of our kids and a white kid here we will support our kid only, won't they also do the same there? No matter how big a lawyer we choose there, for them, we are just a brown skinned alien, then how can they argue in court for us? Our culture is more advanced and we have principles like Aarsha Bharatha Samskaram and Atithi Devo Bhavam, but they don't have any such things, they don't have it! For us, if anyone comes to our home, our culture is to offer them some refreshments, for them, those things are unheard of. They will not offer anything to anyone. If an American was trapped in a legal situation in India they would have taken him away long ago. But our ministers say Oh it is in America, it is sub-judice, so we cannot do anything. Okay, the police there have themselves admitted that they have tampered and destroyed evidence, shouldn't our people question that?
Interviewer:
Have you approached any of our ministers?
Shashi Abraham:
I have met with our External Affairs Ministers, both Pranab Mukherji and S. M. Krishna when they were holding that post. I have met the Prime Minister's Chief of Staff Mr. Nair, I have submitted petitions to everyone, I am doing whatever is possible for me. I need money even for that, even if I have to travel from one place to another I need money, everything, it's not an easy task. I can lock away my pain, it is like putting a living thing in a coffin, it's impossible. As a mother, don't I have an umbilical relation with my son? His pain is also my pain. No matter how much I pretend, why am I pretending, I am actually fooling myself, but I do it, because I need to live on, I need to fight, I need to do it, so I do it.
Interviewer:
Now the only people who can help to free Anand are Prime Minister Manmohan Singh or the President, how much possibility is there for that?
Shashi Abraham:
Why is it not possible? Are any of these people (who have jailed Anand) gods? When we were growing up, we learnt of the story of the young and small David who defeated the giant Goliath. It was because of his confidence that he could do it. When he was fightng he did not think that he is fighting against a giant. He thought I am a confident person, I also have justice on my side, I can do it! My Anand also tells me, mamma we don't need to be scared, this is a war, they are trying to show their might, they are trying to pain you by capturing me, so what we need to do is to spread public awareness about this. So even if one person gets convinced and tells me Shashi I am there to help you, that is a success for me, that is a victory for me, it is an achievement. Anand is such a very strong and confident person, he is a wonderful human being.
Interviewer:
If Prime Minister Shri Manmohan Singh has to be made convinced of this matter, one way is Sonia Gandhi, she is a woman and a mother too, she will be able to understand Anand Jon's mother's situation. I think you should try for that once, that will be good.
Shashi Abraham:
Probably if we were in the North, it might have been possible. But what I am asking is, we Keralites, we are strong people, we are intelligent people, we are capable people. If we move, won't the Centre move? Yes they will! Why can't we start a movement from here itself? 17 people were sentenced to death in the Middle East, but they killed 2 Pakistanis. But even then, when the Punjabis and Haryanites went to Parliament and protested, the Government appointed a lawyer and sent them and freed them. How did that become possible, even though they were sentenced to death? My son did not kill anyone, he is not a terrorist, not even one girl had a scratch, they did not have any evidence, there is no force. I am no one to say that a man and a woman should not have bodily relations, that is their choice, that too, in a country like America, which does not hold any such values, they don't say that morality is lost or character is lost, these are aggressive and progressive girls of America.
Interviewer:
Did you see Shashi Tharoor? He is a Malayali and has ties with the US also.
Shashi Abraham:
All these are people who are capable of doing things, but they should do it, shouldn't they? They should have something known as conscience, what is the point of me going and telling to people who don't have that? How did India gain freedom? It was not just 1 Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi alone, not just 1 Lokamanya Tilak alone, not just 1 Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel alone, not just 1 Subhash Chandra Bose alone, there were so many unheard of people who shed their blood for this. We had a freedom movement, a Quit India movement, how many millions of people were involved in it, that is how we attained it! So if our Centre has to know this and get involved, we should begin an agitation here. I am reiterating, this is not only for Anand, but for anybody who is going through this kind of situation, who has been denied justice. we should be able to fight for them. Today by God's grace you are coming and talking to me, so somebody will listen. Or even if nobody is there, Dasettan (Yesudas) is talking to someone. He usually doesn't talk so much because people will say he is doing it because Anand is his nephew, but he has been seeing and talking to everybody possible and now he is tired of appealing to people. How much more evidence should be there of truth on our part? Anand passed a lie detector test. If he had been sentenced to 59 years in jail on the complaint of some other girl, I could have consoled myself. There was only 1 rape kit in the case, it was negative, and there were no findings and no evidence in the foresnsic medical report. I did not make this medical report, they themselves conducted it and it clearly says there were no findings.
Interviewer:
The length of his jail term is 55 years is it?
Shashi Abraham:
He's been convicted for 59 years to life, for charges like attempted kiss. For e.g., you are sitting there, I am sitting here, so if you bend forward and ask me how are you doing sister and I allege that it was an attempted kiss, it would be 7 years for that. Then for touching the thighs, for that, 9 years, I just can't believe all this!
Interviewer:
You are speaking out of a mother's pain. In which way now can there be a progress in Anand's case?
Shashi Abraham:
Anand has medical problems, the Indian Government needs to take it up. We have Consul Generals at each place there, they should go and talk to the jail authorities there and tell them, he is our citizen, he needs facilities for these, they should be appealing like that. Only if they appeal will we get it. The jail authorities are not bigger people than us that we should be afraid of them, why should we be afraid? What is the point of sending people there who cannot appeal for an Indian citizen? That is what they can do, then our external affairs people should talk to their equals, for e.g., an ambassador should talk to another ambassador and tell, these are the facts of the case which we have found out, if one of your people was in a case like this, where he passed a lie detector test and the rape kit was negative, what would you do? Don't we say that even if a hundred guilty men go unpunished, not even one innocent man should be punished? Then why is this innocent man being locked up like this? Do any one of these girls have even a scratch? No! Has he killed anyone, no! Is he a terrorist, no! A person who has not committed any of these crimes you are punishing him like this, you are committing such a great wrong! Only people who can say these things and make them understand should go there (as our representatives). Otherwise, let them extradite him. let them bring him here, I can fight from here. Let there be some exchange of prisoners, let him be in his country. I don't know if there are any such laws, but no law existed from the start, all laws came by and changed from time to time. This is the time they have to do it. But my voice alone is not sufficient for that, I need the support of all Malayalis and all Indians for that. I need help to fight this case. I will welcome any kind of help, even 1 rupee will help me today. For e.g., in a country like Egypt, a Facebook post was able to alter the history of the country. Are these things that are not possible for us, no it is possible for us! But why are we not doing it? When Anand comes out of jail I want him to be an ambassador for this. From now at least a person who has not committed a crime should not be punished. I will say, rape is a very big crime, to exploit a woman. But it is a different case when a girl went and slept and enjoyed with him and then said, no at that moment I said stop. Ok, maybe in America there might be some laws like that, but here, nobody has complained! They roamed around with him for years, and when his company is about to receive millions of dollars in funding, all this has broken loose. So definitely it has come due to a conspiracy, nobody is saying this because they have been exploited. Anybody with common sense can understand this. His growth was his biggest enemy. But Anand Jon was a person who made India proud. So all of us have a part to play, we have to bring him back here. We have a Chief Minister here, he is capable of doing such things, why can't he ask? For e.g., if our state is lying hungry, won't we ask for help? The centre won't tell us that 10 people from our state did exploitation of women so we won't help. We should ask in the manner that it should be asked. We may not get it if we ask once, but we should ask 10 times. The people who rule over us should have the capability to ask 10 times. They should not be there just to make money for themselves. We have many good people, people with conscience, people with humanitarian concern. We need people who can think and act, and take this up. For e.g., in the Jessica Lall case, it was the media that took it up. The media is very very powerful in this, the powerful media should come forward. It may not be of any use to interview me just once and show it, but it should be an ongoing thing. For e.g., we should ask to 1 minister, what did you do? You took a paper from us, what was the action you took, we want to know. What are you going to do next? We need people who are capable of continuously asking such questions.
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